Alrighty, so here is the list of bands/artists we decided as a group have sold out or at least came close to it. Rank them 1-10 Incongruent Affecters (and friends).
Here they are in alphabetical order:
Aerosmith – “Dream On” Vs. “Cryin” “Amazin”
Bon Jovi – “Wanted Dead or Alive” Vs. “Who Says You Can’t Go Home.”
Chicago – “25 or 6 to 4” “Saturday In the Park” Vs. “Look Away”
The Eagles – “Hotel California” Vs. “Learn to be Still” “Love Will Keep us Alive”
Everclear – “Santa Monica” Vs. 1000 songs about daddy
Foreigner – “Hot Blooded” Vs. “I Wanna Know What Love Is”
Kool & the Gang – “Jungle Boogie” Vs. “Joanna”
The Offspring – “Self Esteem” “Come Out and Play” Vs. “Pretty Fly for a White Guy”
Billy Squier – “Stroke” Vs. “Rock Me Tonight”
Rod Stewart – “Maggie May” “If You Think I’m Sexy” Vs. “I’ve Got a Crush On You.”
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12 comments:
I should preface this by saying, I wish I had the money these bands got for selling out. Sometimes integrity has a price, but it really should be more than some of these bands received.
1. The Eagles-not for the new music but the constant touring without any new music.
2. Chicago-Really should be 1A.
3. Foreigner-They knew what hate was after the song I Wanna Know What Love Is.
4. Rod Stewart-Enough with the standards, either quit or make some original music.
5. Kool & the Gang-Going from one of the great funk bands to a birthday party song band.
6. Aerosmith-They used to have a ballad here and there, but they started having a rocker here and there in the later years.
7. Billy Squier-He screwed himself big time with that video.
8. Everclear-I haven't heard an Everclear song since Father of Mine, so maybe they are too high because they do not seem to be selling at all.
9. The Offspring-I think they always had a novelty song on their albums, but in the later years, they used them to sell their records.
10. Bon Jovi-I don't necessarily think they sold out, they just grew up and had kids.
Not too shabby. May I add:
Jewel. Pop music that was actually good ("Pieces of You" album) to Brittina Spearguilera wannaba crapola.
Creed. Interesting first album followed by 17 remakes of said album with whinier, dumber lyrics.
Green Day. Listen to Dookie and then listen to the digitized hooks on "I Walk Alone." Sad.
Metallica. Easy boys, but alt-rock did not need Metallica and Metallica did not need alt-rock.
Mainstream Country. Where have you gone Johnny Cash, Waylon Jennings, George Jones, Loretta Lynn, Hank Williams, and Tammy Wynette? Oh yeah, you are throwaway lines in some concrete cowboy, fake-patriot pretender's latest pop song with fiddles that he/she calls "country." Is there REALLY any difference between the music of Faith Hill and Celine Dion when it comes down to brass tacks?
That is all for now. Great list and thanks for pushing my blood pressure into orbit. I can skip my run today.
Cort, I think you are confusing selling out with trying new music and evolving with Metallica. You can't say that Metallica ever lost the edge just because every song was screamed with 5 minutes of solos and breakdowns.
They were creating overtures and actually stripped down the music for the black album. Popularity doesn't necessarily mean sell out.
Say what you will about Green Day, American Idiot was the best album they've done, bar none. And if digitization is a deal breaker then all we should listening to is The White Stripes.
Creed wasn't good from the get go and Jewel just decided to make some money. And realistically, she didn't count anyway.
The only thing I would change with Piccu's list is put Billy Squier at the bottom. This is simply because he screwed himself with a video and not necessarily his music.
If you branch out into pop music sellouts, Mariah Carey is the queen. She was creating a career with talent and ability and then decided that talent and ability doesn't mean much when you have short shorts and big thingies that can make you more money.
Christina Aguilera is the prime example. She started off with the jailbait routine and then decided to go legit and pride her talent. Then realized that sex sold better and went all hooker all the time for more dough.
The reason music sucks now is because producers have found out a formula and they flipping artists for short time paydays.
Jewel may be outside the norm of a "rock" list, but I think she's a great pick. Of course Cort and I have talked about this before. But Pieces of You was nice, simple, folky and lyrically was very good.
Then everything after that was just pop princess garbage.
I'll agree with Creed as well. Creed used to be a pretty good alternative band with Scott Stapp acting like Eddie Vedder on lead vocals. Then it became Scott Stapp acting like Eddie Vedder with some backup band called Creed.
Country is another list for another day. Sorry Cort. I feel your pain, and I'm sure the Bratcher boys do too, but this is a rock list. I'll let you slide on Jewel, but Waylon, Willie, John, and Merle will have their day.
Bratch,
I'll agree on Creed to an extent (I was never a big fan of theirs), but I knew someone would jump to defend Metallica.
I'm sorry, but Metallica capitalized on a non-Metallica trend. They did not lead--they followed, and that goes against everything they supposedly stood for.
I've never criticized them for the Black Album. I think they created a starker album that drew people into a world in which they would not normally venture. It's the stuff after that. I mean, they wrote a freakin' sequel to Unforgiven. Any way you slice it, that's selling out.
I never said Green Day did not make good music. That does not mean that they did not sell out. There is a HUGE difference between enhancing a song with technology and building a song on digital hooks. They have crossed the line. Digitization is NOT the deal-breaker. Building your existence on raw punk and switching to digitization because you will sell more records IS a deal-breaker.
And yes, we should all be listening to the White Stripes. :)
Bratch, I think we may just have different definitions of "selling out" based on what you said about Jewel. She "just decided to make some money." Yes--by becoming a pop radio whore. She is the epitome of selling out.
Great call on Mariah Carey, too. She is so talented she did not have to sell out, but did anyway.
OK, no more country from me in this thread.
Oh, and my rankings:
1. Chicago - Left the big horns for the big ballads. Too much Peter Cetera would kill any band.
1A. Jewel - whereas it's questionable if she belongs on THIS list of sellouts, to me she's a sellout. FYI, she made a lot of money on that first album.
2. Aerosmith - Everyone loves a hair metal ballad, but not every other track.
3. The Eagles - As already mentioned, you've got to make music and not just tour. Hype hurts them.
4. Kool & The Gang - Thanks for this one, a great pick. "Joanna" sold it for me.
5. Rod Stewart - I really liked Maggie May.
6. Bon Jovi - I flipped on them. Because I am a closet fan of Living on a Prayer and an out of the closet fan of Wanted Dead or Alive.
7. Foreigner - another great one I would have missed.
8. Everclear - I don't know if sellout was the appropriate term, but they certainly lost their edge.
9. Billy Squier - I never noticed him before.
10. The Offspring - piccu talked me out of this one.
Sting has been submitted for review by a coworker of mine.
Pros? Cons?
I guess I really don't look to deeply at the ethics behind music I listen to. I'm open to just about anything as long as it sounds good to me, but I do ask that the musicians be pretty darn good at what they do.
I treat music like I treat movies. I don't try to figure anything out or compare it to another movie or evaluate it based on the last movie I saw. I take it as it comes and if it entertains me I call it good.
I guess that's why I liked Green Day's last album more than anything else they had ever done. Say what you will about using technology and whatever. That was an extremely good album and judging from their punk roots, probably more challenging than anything they had ever created before. It's got a nice beat and it's easy to dance to... I give it a 10.
Punk bands are like bluegrass bands. None of them really make big time money making straight punk or straight traditional bluegrass. It's what we call in the business a "pipe dream."
1. Chicago
2. Foreigner
3. Bon Jovi
4. Kool & the Gang
5. The Offspring
6. The Eagles
7. Everclear
9. Rod Stewart
10. Aerosmith
I may have had to consent to them bei on the list. But I can make them last in my ranking :-) :-)
I don't really hold bands all that highly on an ethical scale. I could care less what their motives are, their beliefs or what they think they stand for musically or otherwise.
Because in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. And if you continue to do nothing but make the same type of music over and over and over, we won't get to hear that music for very long because people will get tired of it.
AC/DC is probably the only band to get away with that. But they really changed themselves to an extent when Bon Scot died and they replaced him. That brought in some fresh input.
However, when it comes down to it, AC/DC isn't really capable of selling out just because Bryan Johnson couldn't sing a love or pop song to save his life. He has razors in his throat.
Bratch...we're waiting on your rankings.
Notsomuch on your musings about the absence of ethics in discussions of music, but just your rankings.
tee hee
I take a day off to do some mowing on the farm and I miss 11 comments. Let me clear my throat.
As for Jewel, I liked her better in the Intuition video, I don't know about the song but she was great in the video.
As for Metallica, you touched a nerve. I agree that some of their more recent albums haven't set the world on fire, but I never really felt they went alt rock. The Load and ReLoad album were almost more heavy blues than alt rock. Kirk's solos and slide playing gave them a bluesier feel than any albums from their past. Then they go super thrash on St. Anger and noone (except me) liked it. Even the hardcore fans didn't like it. I believe Metallica is in a damned if they do, damned if they don't area.
Sting really had nowhere to go but down after the breakup of the Police. I am not sure if he sold out, or just kind of became irrelevant over time. Free, free, set him free.
Mainstream country is mainstream pop music as far as I am concerned. For those of you who live in my area, you can't tell the difference between the music on 92.5 (country) and 96 (poppy pop pop poparoo). If you want authentic country, you have to go XM which has 3 great country stations, from great 60's thru 80's, pre-60's, and new alt-country.
AC/DC is the only band that will never have the opportunity to sell out and they don't have to. They are the perfect band.
When it all comes right down to it, bands are only in it for two things. When they are just starting out, they don't know anything about money, so they are in it for sex. When they do break out and start to get noticed, they then become more interested in money. They start out democrats and end up republicans.
Just wait until they find a lead singer and no band will have as much integrity as SuperNova.
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